tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post4882632628429855932..comments2024-01-18T06:49:55.117-08:00Comments on Close Call Sports & Umpire Ejection Fantasy League: Ejection 112: Larry Vanover (2)Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06361341904305010488noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-33792430391358312682012-08-10T07:13:01.794-07:002012-08-10T07:13:01.794-07:00"I was walking off the field and I didn't..."I was walking off the field and I didn't think that anyone was paying attention to me," Upton said, "and I had some remarks about the pitch, and I didn't say them to anybody. I guess either my lips got read because I was being watched or somebody heard what I said."<br />Justin Upton, as reported by the Associated Press.Troynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-62364482631266417502012-08-10T00:28:38.997-07:002012-08-10T00:28:38.997-07:00For those who were wondering why Upton was ejected...For those who were wondering why Upton was ejected, I don't have a definitive answer for what he did but I can tell you what he didn't do. There was no helmet toss in the direction of Vanover by Upton. When he was walking back to the dugout he did not even have his helmet in his hand, the bat boy did. You could see him turn around and say a few things most likely pretty quietly and after he turned around just before enetering the dugout he was ejected by Marquez who was standing around the first base dugout. Not sure if it was warranted or not, I will assume that it was. Upton didn't realize he was ejected because Marquez gave the ejection signal when Upton was not looking and well in the dugout. That's when Chris Young started going crazy in the dugout which can actually be seen in the video. I think Young at that point was protesting Upton's ejection. Very interesting stuff though.Russhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00077541258320019256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-65947252755505709342012-08-10T00:27:04.967-07:002012-08-10T00:27:04.967-07:00For those who were wondering why Upton was ejected...For those who were wondering why Upton was ejected, I don't have a definitive answer for what he did but I can tell you what he didn't do. There was no helmet toss in the direction of Vanover by Upton. When he was walking back to the dugout he did not even have his helmet in his hand, the bat boy did. You could see him turn around and say a few things most likely pretty quietly and after he turned around just before enetering the dugout he was ejected by Marquez who was standing around the first base dugout. Not sure if it was warranted or not, I will assume that it was. Upton didn't realize he was ejected because Marquez gave the ejection signal when Upton was not looking and well in the dugout. That's when Chris Young started going crazy in the dugout which can actually be seen in the video. I think Young at that point was protesting Upton's ejection. Very interesting stuff though.Russhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00077541258320019256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-55829658760280257992012-08-09T22:01:58.537-07:002012-08-09T22:01:58.537-07:00When a player shows zero signs of agreeing with an...When a player shows zero signs of agreeing with an ejection then you have to assume that they feel it was warranted. When a player shows every sign of agreeing, they feel it wasn't.<br /><br />In theory, that says nothing about whether or not the ejection was actually warranted because the player is not impartial. But in practice it is so rare that a player feels that they should have been ejected that when they do react calmly to an ejection, and therefore give the impression that they feel it was warranted, it is (in most cases) safe to conclude that it was, because this usually means that the player not only did something to draw the ejection but knows that he did it and that the ejection was correct.AERAdminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359811610564661308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-29186093860171540012012-08-09T22:00:36.366-07:002012-08-09T22:00:36.366-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.AERAdminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359811610564661308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-29028361153198687282012-08-09T21:25:24.047-07:002012-08-09T21:25:24.047-07:00Okay, you're right. SO when he disputes the EJ...Okay, you're right. SO when he disputes the EJECTION, that means it's not a righteous ejection?Mikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-82634351810168915632012-08-09T21:11:39.708-07:002012-08-09T21:11:39.708-07:00@Mike: He said that Upton didn't dispute the E...@Mike: He said that Upton didn't dispute the EJECTION, so he must have known he deserved it.AERAdminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359811610564661308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-79982915794282835942012-08-09T20:39:32.914-07:002012-08-09T20:39:32.914-07:00So Anon 8:24, with that in mind, you must agree th...So Anon 8:24, with that in mind, you must agree that if a player disputes a call then it is not a righteous ejection? Isn't that what you just said?<br /><br />LOLMikenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-83924795355279699972012-08-09T20:24:44.283-07:002012-08-09T20:24:44.283-07:003:09 here. Things had "settled down" in ...3:09 here. Things had "settled down" in the sense that Upton left the field. Gibson was still out there discussing things with Vanover. The inning was over. Both O'Nora and Fonzie came in to help clear things up. There was still shouting going on from the DBacks dugout. As the 1B umpire, Fonzie has ressponsibility for the 1B dugout whenever there is an issue. It was a righteous ejection. The fact that Upton didn't dispute it at all supports this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-86490863864173873962012-08-09T20:22:29.224-07:002012-08-09T20:22:29.224-07:00I saw the game live on TV and couldn't tell wh...I saw the game live on TV and couldn't tell what happened, since neither broadcast was watching Upton and I think the ejection happened after both stations went to commercial anyway. I saw very brief replays of it that didn't really give a good sense of when the ejection happened in relation to the other events.<br /><br />Neither Upton nor Gibson seemed too upset about the ejection. Yeah, Upton gives this "what did I do?" shrug as he enters the dugout, but that really seems since he doesn't seem all that surprised when O'Nora is talking to him. That makes me think that, despite the way Gibson phrased comments after the game, that both he and Upton knew the ejection was deserved. But since MLB doesn't seem to want to show the video, unless someone recorded one of the broadcasts no one will ever know what happened here.AERAdminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359811610564661308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-5858815963718399702012-08-09T20:13:09.639-07:002012-08-09T20:13:09.639-07:00No one believes that a player has immunity to act ...No one believes that a player has immunity to act however he wants in the dugout. I'm still operating under the assumption that Marquez's action was appropriate, but Gibson's statement calls that assumption into question. My questions were directed to 3:09's recitation of events, as we cannot see Marquez or Upton on the video. I questioned why Marquez was still standing there if "things had calmed down," as 3:09 suggested. I thought perhaps 3:09 saw the game live or on tv and could shed some more light on what happened.Curt Crowleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704349341530572678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-8071153148257081682012-08-09T18:28:05.198-07:002012-08-09T18:28:05.198-07:00@Curley: Young was still flipping out when he went...@Curley: Young was still flipping out when he went into the dugout. Marquez could have been standing there to make sure he actually left the dugout and didn't decide to come back onto the field.<br /><br />By the way, why do so many people think this is true:<br />Player + Dugout = Immunity<br /><br />Because it's not. Being in the dugout does not give you leeway to continue to argue the call. It's quite possible Upton said something as he was walking near Marquez and just didn't shut up when he went into the dugout. It is also equally possible that Upton said nothing when he walked past Marquez and shouted something from within that got him tossed. It's even possible, however unlikely, that Upton maybe didn't do anything deserving of an ejection at all. But contrary to popular belief, umpires don't go on the field looking to throw people out of the game. If Marquez threw Upton out, and it wasn't because of the helmet toss, then it was probably because Upton was arguing the call from the dugout.AERAdminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359811610564661308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-37866069999685299972012-08-09T16:46:33.614-07:002012-08-09T16:46:33.614-07:00If things had settled down, then why was Marquez s...If things had settled down, then why was Marquez standing watch over the dugout? The video shows the discussion between Vanover and Gibson. It wasn't an argument, as Vanover went to Gibson to talk about what happened (nothing wrong with Vanover doing that). It looked like Young was gone by the time Upton would have been tossed, and O'Nora was already over there anyway. So, again, why was Marquez standing over the dugout?<br /><br />Umpire + Dugout = Trouble. <br /><br />I'd like to think Fonzarelli wasn't doing his macho camacho routine, but according to Gibson that's what it seems like.Curt Crowleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704349341530572678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-68782613911943973922012-08-09T15:09:42.457-07:002012-08-09T15:09:42.457-07:00After Young was ejected, things had settled down. ...After Young was ejected, things had settled down. Fonzie was standing in front of the DBack dugout while Gibson discussed the EJ with Vanover. Upton ran his mouth and Fonzie dumped him. Upton wasn't aware he had been ejected and took the field in the bottom of the 7th. O'Nora had to go over to him and tell him he was gone. He jogged off the field without incident.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-72211577420621718112012-08-09T14:25:53.040-07:002012-08-09T14:25:53.040-07:00@Curt Crowley: You missed the key preceding part o...@Curt Crowley: You missed the key preceding part of that post, the fact that he didn't throw it down or into the dugout in frustration, but that he threw it "in the direction of the playing field" as he entered the dugout, which Marquez may have interpreted as throwing towards the umpire(s) and therefore in protest of the call.<br /><br />However, I've been basing all these statements on a earlier comment saying Upton threw the helmet towards the field and was immediately ejected. If the latter is not actually true, than the former may not be true as well.<br />So I retract all statements regarding the Upton ejection until such time as a video of said ejection is made available.AERAdminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359811610564661308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-2494678376244994562012-08-09T14:04:30.907-07:002012-08-09T14:04:30.907-07:00This may be the explanation for why MLB hasn't...This may be the explanation for why MLB hasn't posted the video of the Justin Upton ejection. According to Gibson, Upton did not get ejected until he said something in the dugout, and that Marquez had left his position and was "kind of rabbit-earing the dugout, and that's where Justin got ran right there...."<br /><br /> http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120809&content_id=36417176&notebook_id=36417180&vkey=notebook_ari&c_id=ariCurt Crowleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704349341530572678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-51681659149614424052012-08-09T13:55:58.896-07:002012-08-09T13:55:58.896-07:00@BAPACop: "But it doesn't matter why he ...@BAPACop: "But it doesn't matter why he threw it, only that he did in fact throw it. It's an equipment violation. You get ejected for equipment violations."<br /><br />Well, sometimes. We routinely see spiked helmets, bats, etc., and no one gets ejected. The difference has to be the reason why the equipment is thrown. Furstration with self normally doesn't result in an ejection, while anger with the call does. For that reason, I would say the motivation for the equipment throwing is highly relevant, so long as the umpires implement the rule in this manner.<br /><br />In support of this, I would offer Fairchild ejecting Dave Martinez for arguing the non-ejection of Marco Scutero for spiking his bat out of frustration when he popped up. Fairchild's failure to eject Scutero is pretty typical of how most umpires handle the equipment spiking issue.<br /><br />http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=17006091<br /><br />Note that I haven't seen the video of Marquez and Upton, and will assume that Marquez acted appropriately until I see evidence to the contrary.Curt Crowleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15704349341530572678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-25106916381953395612012-08-09T13:37:05.532-07:002012-08-09T13:37:05.532-07:00Thanks 1:10, I am kind of surprised by that but O&...Thanks 1:10, I am kind of surprised by that but O'Nora is probably a better Umpire. I wonder if they go by playoff record since O'Nora has 5 playoff assignments compared to Vanover's three. That would also explain the Everitt situation since Mike has only missed the Playoffs once since 2000 compared to Schreiber not working the Playoffs since 2001.Russhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00077541258320019256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-30200146609620674332012-08-09T13:10:15.739-07:002012-08-09T13:10:15.739-07:00Was at the game. O'Nora was introduced as the ...Was at the game. O'Nora was introduced as the CC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-16933611017501867482012-08-09T13:01:02.226-07:002012-08-09T13:01:02.226-07:00Young's at bat w/ Vanover reminded me of Bryce...Young's at bat w/ Vanover reminded me of Bryce Harper's at bat(s) w/ Angel Hernandez last night - although, that did not result in an EJ. My opinion, they either got all of the calls correct or missed them all because the pitches were in the same spots. <br /><br />Players and coaches always cry about consistentcy... well, those pitches were all ruled the same (strikes) - although some of you may say they were called "consistently wrong"? Nevertheless, if they call the first one a strike, and then strike the next pitch in the same/similar location, its pretty obvious the ump is seeing that pitch as a strike and you may want to consider swinging at the next one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-485478689420909102012-08-09T12:13:54.020-07:002012-08-09T12:13:54.020-07:00I'm also pretty sure Larry Vanover is the CC n...I'm also pretty sure Larry Vanover is the CC not O'Nora. Unlike the Everitt-Schreiber situation where Everitt is only 1 year younger and is so obviously better, Vanover has 4 more years of experience and the gap is not as big as the previous example but O'Nora is still better.Russhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00077541258320019256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-3854460992287599002012-08-09T11:35:12.171-07:002012-08-09T11:35:12.171-07:00Anon, The Upton ejection is not even eligible to b...Anon, The Upton ejection is not even eligible to be ruled incorrect. At worst it will be irrecusable based on unsportsmanlike conduct-NEC. The Quality of correctness is based on the call not the ejection. Even if you don't agree with the ejection, he was ejected either for arguing the correct call or for throwing his helmet. Nowhere in that is there an incorrect call so you will get your way in that aspect.Russhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00077541258320019256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-83208602625482397162012-08-09T11:15:50.965-07:002012-08-09T11:15:50.965-07:00I'll challenge the Upton ejection as Marquez h...I'll challenge the Upton ejection as Marquez had nothing to do with the play, and Upton's actions merited nothing more than an equipment fine. Think there is some rule granting an Incorrect QOC when a situation like that occurs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-40613388395037562532012-08-09T09:41:11.678-07:002012-08-09T09:41:11.678-07:00For those saying Upton shouldn't have been eje...For those saying Upton shouldn't have been ejected, please note how he very calmly walked off the field without putting up a big argument. Maybe he knew he deserved it. Also, maybe Chris Young should learn a little from Upton about how to handle being ejected, not that Upton did very well last time he was tossed but this time was different. Finally, it's blatantly obvious that Young deserved to go.UmpsRulenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-68829865674700842592012-08-09T07:27:02.263-07:002012-08-09T07:27:02.263-07:00i agree with wwjd...he wasn't directly arguing...i agree with wwjd...he wasn't directly arguing the call- it was NEC-unsportsmanlike conduct to throw the helmet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com