tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post619065283083057010..comments2024-01-18T06:49:55.117-08:00Comments on Close Call Sports & Umpire Ejection Fantasy League: Ejection 081: James Hoye (2)Lindsayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06361341904305010488noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-57786253714543486652012-07-04T14:46:15.581-07:002012-07-04T14:46:15.581-07:00Can we update the points on the original post.Can we update the points on the original post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-70524807538615275842012-07-03T22:24:51.001-07:002012-07-03T22:24:51.001-07:00Excellent to see the opinions related to the decis...Excellent to see the opinions related to the decisions; sound reasoning behind both sides.Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15408085451969304592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-88895980620702511762012-07-03T20:59:23.883-07:002012-07-03T20:59:23.883-07:00I still maintain that a catcher can't be expec...I still maintain that a catcher can't be expected to tag the runner if he is taken out. If you hit the catcher, you are forfeiting your right to require a tag. That's how it's always been. At least half of the times a catcher is trucked at the plate and gets an out, there is no tagAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-36126026818286677912012-07-03T20:37:39.050-07:002012-07-03T20:37:39.050-07:00I applaud the decision, and the explanatory opinio...I applaud the decision, and the explanatory opinions.Cricketnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-36666215669866746232012-07-03T11:00:36.827-07:002012-07-03T11:00:36.827-07:00After review, the Original Ruling has been reverse...After review, the Original Ruling has been reversed in a 4-2 decision by the UEFL Appeals Board. Four Appeals Board members elected to Overturn the Original Ruling and two voted to Uphold it.<br /><br />Per Curiam Opinion:<br />In establishing the accuracy of this play, the Board considers the definition of 2.00 TAG [abridged]: "the action of a fielder in touching a runner with the ball, or with his hand or glove holding the ball, while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove." Rule 2.00 TOUCH specifies the object of the action may be touched "on any part of his body, his clothing or his equipment."<br /><br />In reviewing this play, the Board rejects the argument that the catcher's contact with the runner is a legal tag; After review, the Board has determined the catcher's glove did not touch any part of the runner prior to the runner touching home plate.<br /><br />Concurring Opinion, <b>RichMSN</b>, Joined by <b>Albertaumpire</b>:<br />the call by the umpire (not the UEFL commissioner) is correct until it's proven to me (not beyond a shadow of a doubt, but somewhere close to that) otherwise. That's always my approach, though. If it's not conclusive that a tag was applied, if it's not conclusive that the plate was missed...then I'll probably vote to overturn the call even though it seems like the more dramatic result -- only because it upholds an inconclusive call by the original calling official. I think that's only fair to the ML umpire who had to make this call in real time. <br /><br />I've watched this from every angle multiple times and am not convinced there's a tag nor convinced that a plate was missed that led to a missed (in the end) call. Overturn.<br /><br />Dissenting Opiniong, <b>tmac</b>:<br />i have watched multiple angles numerous times and am fairly certain a piece of the glove contacts the runner before he touches home plate... I am not 100% therefore i am upholding the call of incorrect. I have no conclusive evidence that the runner touched home . And anything that happened after the safe call is irrelevant. You can see Hoye saying his foot touched the plate. If he was looking at his foot from that close would have been mighty hard to see the tag (try looking at the bag and seeing a tag on a swipe play at 1st).<br /><br />Dissenting Opinion, <b>Gil</b>:<br />Under the auspices of <a href="http://portal.closecallsports.com/uefl-rules" rel="nofollow">UEFL Rule 6-5-a</a>, "In the event that a play under appeal can be conclusively categorized or adjudged as Correct/Incorrect as a result of this action, through the use of conclusive and/or clear and/or convincing evidence, the appeal shall be either Upheld or Denied." 6-5-b specifies deferral if evidence is not conclusive, clear and/or convincing.<br /><br />By this standard, the Original Ruling should be upheld by virtue of convincing—yet not conclusive—evidence to suggest a legal tag. OBR Rule 1.12 specifies the bounds of a catcher's mitt, furthermore declaring such a mitt "shall include all lacing and any leather band or facing attached to the outer edge of the mitt"; therefore, the question of contact with glove lacing or bands is put to rest—it is a legal tag. Used interchangeably with "glove" for the purposes of Rule 2.00 TAG, <a href="http://espn.go.com/mlb/photos?gameId=320701114&photoId=2186787" rel="nofollow">this photograph</a> appears to indicate a legal tag before the runner has touched home plate.<br /><br />A tag is not an "intent" play, nor is it subject to any criteria save for the aforemention Rules 2.00, 1.12 and, in this case, 7.08(b). After review, Rule 2.00 TAG has been satisfied, evidence suggests satisfaction preceeded the runner's touch of home plate and ergo, a correctly ruled Original QOC.<br /><br />Therefore, the Board reverses the Original Ruling.<br /><br />Confirmed: None<br />Upheld: <b>Gil, tmac</b><br />Overturned: <b>Albertaumpire, BillMueller, RichMSN, yawetag</b><br />Deferred: None<br />Abstained: <b>Jeremy (Posted Original Ruling)</b><br /><br />The Original Ruling has been reversed, 4-2.Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06361341904305010488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-22945447136637003052012-07-03T02:07:11.068-07:002012-07-03T02:07:11.068-07:00In this video...
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp...In this video...<br />http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=22771679<br /><br />The eleven-minute mark play...<br />Someone tell me if I'm seeing things. Watch the runner's left hand. It appears to make contact with the catcher's glove, as it seems to be being pushed backwards by something in the replay at about 10:58. That looks like a tag there, to me.AERAdminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359811610564661308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-77597205823217269742012-07-02T20:56:26.927-07:002012-07-02T20:56:26.927-07:00i don't see a tag there.... and hoye is a grea...i don't see a tag there.... and hoye is a great dude.... a guy to root for and an excellent umpire.... But he just had a bad day... I think what we are seeing here is that some people will rule in favor of the umpire no matter what side the call is on.... It's an excellent point... There's just one problem... When you're on the field there needs to be accountability... it's the major factor that all levels of umpires need to have.... There is a definite lack of it on many levels and with some posters. To the people who are fans of umpires and don't take the field!! Greats thanks and no matter what happens keep rooting for the umpires!! But to the umpires professinal and amateurs who make this look like a republican/democrat debate... be better then that!!tmachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801025280017627526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-19397270016256162692012-07-02T20:24:42.004-07:002012-07-02T20:24:42.004-07:00I'm going to be a little more civil than anon ...I'm going to be a little more civil than anon 8:21 but agree with him at the same time, I am definetely seeing a tag by Hester here. I don't understand the witchh unt against Hoye. He had a bad day, happens to everybody.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-12250534661777977382012-07-02T19:46:34.535-07:002012-07-02T19:46:34.535-07:00http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=22771...http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=22771679<br /><br />Video on that.Jeremy Dirckshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18377576945075992373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-49122251742866690782012-07-02T19:40:59.395-07:002012-07-02T19:40:59.395-07:00Check this at the 11 minute mark, another collisio...Check this at the 11 minute mark, another collision at the plate, a clear no tag on the plate, Hoye rules an out.Jeremy Dirckshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18377576945075992373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-11190822557398997442012-07-02T13:04:31.384-07:002012-07-02T13:04:31.384-07:00This is actually Jim Joyce's crew. He was taki...This is actually Jim Joyce's crew. He was taking his mandatory week off and they decided to bring in Hallion to be the Crew Chief instead of calling up a Triple A guy. This crew was very quiet for most of the year and then when Joyce is off they have 2 ejections. Funny how that works. I would not rank this crew towards the bottom yet though, Joyce and Reynolds are both excellent, Hoye had a bad day yesterday but is usually pretty solid (he made the playoffs in only his second season on the full time staff, that is very impressive. I have never really thought Dimuro was that great of an Umpire, he always seems unsure of himself on calls, has a very big strikezone (too big IMO)and has only worked the Playoffs twice in 12 seasons. Not a god week for the crew, but though I still say Hoye got the call right. Usually, if a runner railroads a catcher as long as the catcher hangs on to the ball the runner will be out. But I don't like that unwritten rule at all. There has to be a tag somewhere and I am failing to see one in any video I have watched. As far as this crew's performance, I have confidence they will get back on their feet with Joyce returning. Not that Tom Hallion is bad at all because he is easily one of the best in the game right now and did a great job sticking up for his former crewmmate from last year Hoye, but sometimes Umpires might be more used to a certain CC they have seen all season running the show.Russhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00077541258320019256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-70369468985762150922012-07-02T12:54:27.219-07:002012-07-02T12:54:27.219-07:00@12:02,
True, however, looking at Brooks basebal...@12:02, <br /><br />True, however, looking at Brooks baseball plot for the entire game, Hoye was all over the place -- both for Toronto and Anaheim. Whenever you start a strike mechanic and a strike verbalization on a close pitch then change your mind it is going to cause the opposing manager to come out of the dugout and ask "what was that pitch?"<br /><br />This certainly contributed to Mike's meltdown on the play at the plate. I'll give Hoye credit though, he let Mike blow off a lot of steam before he finally tossed him. Hallion doesn't waste any time to get to the argument area -- a lesson for some other crew chiefs out there.Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15408085451969304592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-71812120828203836092012-07-02T12:02:26.284-07:002012-07-02T12:02:26.284-07:00@Pete: I didn't see the game, however,that Br...@Pete: I didn't see the game, however,that Brooks baseball plots in general do not take "Catcher's Influence" into consideration... which is a criteria that is backed out of their quest-tec score after the game. Just something to keep in mind...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-33054251413728920202012-07-02T11:50:44.029-07:002012-07-02T11:50:44.029-07:00this crew has had some bad showings...but hallion ...this crew has had some bad showings...but hallion showed he can step it up when backing hoye at multiple points yesterdayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-60391583896507836742012-07-02T11:45:57.479-07:002012-07-02T11:45:57.479-07:00This crew is slowly entering the bottom tier of um...This crew is slowly entering the bottom tier of umpiring crews this year.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-6725393542778967252012-07-02T11:31:08.023-07:002012-07-02T11:31:08.023-07:00@ Anon 10:51
Where did it touch him? I have yet t...@ Anon 10:51<br /><br />Where did it touch him? I have yet to see it.UmpsRulenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-43047315721068387342012-07-02T10:51:48.828-07:002012-07-02T10:51:48.828-07:00Rough call, it sure looked like the glove touched ...Rough call, it sure looked like the glove touched him. Out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-28562785624113773382012-07-02T09:32:08.074-07:002012-07-02T09:32:08.074-07:00Wow, that bad mechanic definately put the Angels i...Wow, that bad mechanic definately put the Angels in a foul mood, and rightly so. <br /><br />http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/cache/numlocation_io.php-pitchSel=450351&game=gid_2012_07_01_anamlb_tormlb_1&batterX=27&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=3.gifPetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15408085451969304592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-28844888926402163192012-07-02T09:03:45.625-07:002012-07-02T09:03:45.625-07:00http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=22771...http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=22771679<br /><br />that steball is about at 6:00tmachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15801025280017627526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-25615072826618566192012-07-02T07:56:23.291-07:002012-07-02T07:56:23.291-07:00I think that the Angels announcers will find that ...I think that the Angels announcers will find that they will do a much better job when they actually use their eyes. It was bad enough that the play-by-play guy totally blew the call in real time, but to miss it again after watching the replay is totally unprofessional. In other words, somebody was atrocious and it wasn't Hoye.UmpsRulenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-8843542704428171542012-07-02T06:27:29.008-07:002012-07-02T06:27:29.008-07:00@anon 6:17...that situation that brought scioscia ...@anon 6:17...that situation that brought scioscia out in the 4th: the pitch did look like a ball (never saw a plot), but hoye raised his arm and appeared to vocalize strike, but never extended his fingers...after his arms went up, he made a safe sign, i guess indicating no strike. it was a pretty ugly call. tom hallion had to come down from first to get rid of scoscia...hallion actually did a very good job in both cases getting in a taking care of hoye.cyclone14noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-68116342464333783482012-07-02T06:17:12.889-07:002012-07-02T06:17:12.889-07:00Saw the highlights on MLBN. I wonder if Scioscia ...Saw the highlights on MLBN. I wonder if Scioscia gets run if not for another questionable call in the fourth where Hoye appeared to call a strike, then changed the call to a ball giving Edwin Encarnacion a walk. Unfortunately, I can't find those highlights online but there are a couple of articles out there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-22564243457343908232012-07-02T00:52:50.380-07:002012-07-02T00:52:50.380-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.AERAdminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00359811610564661308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-67048539683334799292012-07-02T00:30:03.614-07:002012-07-02T00:30:03.614-07:00@Tmac
No doubt that Hoye butchered this, but he g...@Tmac<br /><br />No doubt that Hoye butchered this, but he got lucky with a 50/50 chance and got the call correct (whether the call was "right" or not is a whole other debate).<br /><br />Based upon the evidence provided, I just don't see how this can conclusively be an incorrect call.Cricketnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4917712291092871273.post-17582738640913337072012-07-01T23:29:05.614-07:002012-07-01T23:29:05.614-07:00This ruling has been challenged and is under revie...This ruling has been challenged and is under review by the UEFL Appeals Board.Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06361341904305010488noreply@blogger.com