Sunday, June 2, 2013

MLB Ejections 057, 058: Clint Fagan (1, 2; Molina, Matheny)

1B Umpire Clint Fagan ejected Cardinals catcher Yadier Molina and Manager Mike Matheny for arguing an out call to end the bottom of the 3rd inning of the Giants-Cardinals game. With two out and two on, Molina hit
Everitt restrains Molina as Fagan ejects Matheny.
a 0-2 fastball from Giants pitcher Chad Gaudin on the ground to shortstop Brandon Crawford, who threw to first baseman Brett Pill as Molina arrived at first base. Replays indicate Pill caught the baseball prior to Molina's left foot contacting first base, the call was correct. At the time of the ejection, the Giants were leading, 2-0. The Giants ultimately won the contest, 4-2.

These are Clint Fagan (82)'s first and second ejections of 2013.
Clint Fagan now has 10 points in the UEFL (0 Previous + 2*[3 AAA + 2 Correct Call] = 10).
Crew Chief Tim Welke now has 5 points in the UEFL's Crew Division (3 Previous + 2*[1 Correct] = 5).

These are the 57th and 58th ejections of 2013.
This is the 26th player ejection of 2013. Prior to his ejection, Molina was 0-2 in the contest.
This is the 29th Manager ejection of 2013.
These are the Cardinals' 1st/2nd ejections of 2013, T-2nd in the NL Central (PIT 4; CHC, MIL, STL 2; CIN 0).
This is Yadier Molina's first ejection since spitting on Rob Drake, August 2, 2011 (Rob Drake; QOC = N).
This is Mike Matheny's first ejection since June 16, 2012 (Kerwin Danley; QOC = Y).
This is Clint Fagan's first ejection since September 12, 2012 (Justin Ruggiano; QOC = N).

Wrap: San Francisco Giants vs. St. Louis Cardinals, 6/2/13
Video: Called out at first, Molina goes ballistic, slamming helmet, charging Fagan and shoving Everitt (STL)

134 comments :

Gil Imber said...

Ha, Molina was hardly "arguing" a fairly obvious out call. Pretty clearly was mad at himself for not running out a ball he initially thought was in the gap. Classic vigilante ejection here.

Gil Imber said...

So just because you have not heard of an umpire means that he is a bad one? And because he nailed a bang-bang play at first, he is going to make a bad name for himself. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Molina is a hothead if a ever saw one.

Gil Imber said...

You spike a helmet to the ground or throw equipment after a close play, that is an ejection. Standard operating procedure.

Gil Imber said...

MLB wants the umpires to make this ejection. I'm a cards fan, and I love Yadi, but he had to know this was going to happen, especially from a callup. They have to make the front office happy to get hired, so they have to be by the book and don't have the luxury of looking the other way on this stuff.

Gil Imber said...

Suspend that thug. Lot of bumping and he was acting like he was going to kill someone.

Gil Imber said...

We get a textbook above-and-beyond crew chief ejection by Joe West last night in Chicago and go right from that one to this - Tim Welke lollygagging down near home plate while Mike Everitt has to rush over and help out the minor league guy with an irate Molina who is a proven piece of hotheaded sh*t. Sorry Welke, but that's just lazy, a brand of laziness not seen since Mark Wegner ejected Lou Piniella also in Chicago and he had to fend for himself with an impassioned Sweet Lou until Bruce Froemming could bring himself to walk the 90 feet from home plate to third base. Crew chiefs: This is what not to do.

Gil Imber said...

1) Yadi is slow 2) When Yadi gets pissed, he really gets pissed.

Gil Imber said...

Seemed fairly premeditated with how quickly he tossed Molina. Molina pretty obviously had nothing wrong with the call so as a baseball fan, I would like to see him stay in the game.

Gil Imber said...

Fair enough, I still disagree with the call but that would explain why it looked fairly premeditated.

Gil Imber said...

He was pissed at the call not himself in my opinion.

Gil Imber said...

Austin has already forgotten about the 5 game suspension Molina got in 2011 for being anything but professional.

Gil Imber said...

You are right about his prior suspension. Like I said, not a follower of the Cardinals but I recall his suspension a few years ago. From what I know, he has improved every year in the league and continues to stand out as a leader on and off the field. I happened to be watching this game and saw a player thrown out for no reason whatsoever. As a Nats fan, I see Bryce Harper break a helmet nearly every game. He isn't thrown out for it, so why should Molina be? It was obvious he was upset at himself. Bad call. Maybe a bad day. Not saying the ump is a bad ump, just saying it was a bad call.

Gil Imber said...

The "throwing equipment" surrounding a close call piece is on the PBUC's Standards for Removal from the Game. Eject the offender.

Gil Imber said...

Since when has throwing equipment ever been considered "sporting behavior."

Gil Imber said...

My biggest issue with this sort of call is that while I can completely understand why MLB wants umpires to toss players for equipment violations, the umpires have to make an assumption that a player cannot be mad at himself. In this case, I'm not entirely sure that Molina is upset with the call, but because it's a close play, the umpire has to assume he's upset with the call. Molina hit a ball in the hole, the fielder didn't come up with it clean, and threw him out from his knees. My guess would be he was pissed at himself and that was the reason for the helmet slam, but MLB has made reason and logic in this case inconsequential.

Gil Imber said...

Agree with Austin here. Throwing equipment is perfectly legal. Fineable, sure, but legal (not warranting an ejection, as in, they have FINES for these things, not EJECTIONS). Only reason an umpire ejects here is to be seen and heard. No other logical explanation, considering Molina never even glanced in his direction. As Darling said on TBS, hopefully Torre sits this guy down and tells him about the mistake he made. Not the call, the ejection.

Gil Imber said...

Agreed.

Gil Imber said...

Directly from your "standard":#8. Throwing equipment in disgust over an umpire’s call may be grounds for ejection. If the umpire deems the action severe, the umpire may eject the offender. If league regulations permit, the umpire may instead warn the offender by issuing an equipment violation. If issued, the offender is to be notified immediately.



Key words being "in disgust over a call" and "may be grounds for an ejection". There is not standard operating procedure as you have alluded to, and the question lies in whether he was upset at himself or over the call. Instead of throwing out random opinions, bring a fact to the table which is worth discussing.

Gil Imber said...

I'm struggling to understand how/ why people are questioning the validity of this ejection. This is not a new trend and precedent was set a long time ago. Close play followed by throwing of equipment = ejection. The equipment violation is for situations where the play isn't close and the player fires equipment. MLB is trying to force the players to set a good example. Kids emulate the stars and MLB doesnt like the players throwing equipment. If the PA would agree to it, there would be no tobacco allowed either.

Gil Imber said...

You mean the one where the umpire accused people of spitting on him in consecutive games?!?! Rob Drake is a total A-hole.
Yes, when Molina goes off, he goes off. But how often does that happen?

Gil Imber said...

Send the kid back to the minors! And you might want to learn what "proven piece of hothead sh*t" is in the first place. Wow.

Gil Imber said...

Apparently MLB needs to show Cardinal Baseball around the country a little more. You guys think Molina getting ejected what once, twice a year and he's "scum?" Really? WOW. It's not his fault the only time you hear anything about the Cardinals is the couple of times (in 162+ games!) that the national media even recognizes them!

Gil Imber said...

I'd be fine with the no tobacco thing, but getting players to stop showing emotions is going to be tough. I can understand the whole setting a good example for kids thing, but at the same time, do you really expect a competitive athlete in a tense, high pressure situation, to basically say "oh, fiddlesticks"? I can understand not throwing things after every time you fail, but most players don't do that. Most emotions that are shown negatively are because the player has hurt the team by his lack of effort, or because he's made an egregious mental mistake (not swinging at a clear strike 3, serving up a meatball on 0-2, that sort of thing).

Gil Imber said...

Very valid point Cbdees. And I agree, we should keep the game tight for children to emulate. The only issue is based on prior conduct, this has not been penalized. If MLB wanted to do exactly what you are saying, then they would make a rule that throwing equipment is illegal. But they have not. In fact, it has been brought up nearly ever year for the last 5+ years and they refuse to make it illegal because of the passion surrounding the sport.

Gil Imber said...

And every rule change has to be passed through the players association. Until the last decade there was never an umpire on the rules committee. Do we really ever think the players would pass a rule to hold themselves accountable.

Gil Imber said...

That is part of the system. Checks and balances across everything in this great nation.

Gil Imber said...

This is really inaccurate. He wasn't thrown out for arguing anything. Did you even watch the game?

Gil Imber said...

History shows there's some truth to what Jack wrote. This isn't the first time he's had to be restrained and has made contact with umpires. And he clearly can't control his emotions, since this is twice in three years. Maybe he needs some anger management counseling.

You seem to be fascinated with logical fallacies, though. I'm sure there's one you'll attach to my post.

Gil Imber said...

Molina is the definition of a RAT!

Gil Imber said...

Not just ejected twice, but batshit, bumping umpires crazy ejected twice in three years. Fagan just did his job and did nothing but eject Molina and there's Molina "trying to get at Fagan." He should see a lengthy suspension, but I doubt he will.

Gil Imber said...

There we go. Was waiting for that! RAT

Gil Imber said...

I dont always argue, but when I do, I get ejected and go ape s%*#

Gil Imber said...

Also kind of funny that Bengie Molina is trying to restrain Yadier

Gil Imber said...

I love how nobody's mentioned Matheny getting tossed. This ump has a short fuse because Matheny was tossed almost immediately. What was that about?

Gil Imber said...

He got ejected before he argued anything (or even look at the ump). May wanna check out the game, eh?

Gil Imber said...

Most reactions are shown by the same people over and over. The majority of players in the bigs have never been ejected because they don't do things like spike their helmet. Lots og guys in the league that play hard but dont cross the line. Derek Jeter for example

Gil Imber said...

Short fuse? Listen, there's no *amount* of stuff an umpire is going to take if Matheny dials in one of other two P's right away (the 3 P's being personal, profane, prolonged). If Matheny came out and said, "You're horrible," then Fagan is going to eject him immediately. And rightly so.


That's not a quick hook, that's umpiring.

Gil Imber said...

I want to know what the umpire said at the 19 second mark. That appears to be what set Molina off. Molina began to argue, quit and appears call and then at that 19 second mark goes absolutely nuts...

Gil Imber said...

10 seconds is prolonged? Again, I want to know what Matheny said to get ejected in 10 seconds and I want to know what the umpire said to Molina...

Gil Imber said...

Your right my bad. I posted that comment before I saw the video

Gil Imber said...

Third ejection in 9 seasons for Molina, BTW... but clearly a hot-head..

Gil Imber said...

I completely understand, but not everyone is Derek Jeter. Does everyone in your workplace always act in a professional manner, because if so, you are truly lucky my friend. Why are we holding these guys to a higher standard than everyone else?

Gil Imber said...

And they cant even stop the use of tobacco in the minors. It's so bad that commissioners office has a team they call the "tobacco police" that travel around the country searching clubhouses and watching the players through binoculars during BP and the game.

Gil Imber said...

During the game or on the field, I'm fine with it, but in the clubhouse...really?

Gil Imber said...

Because they make millions of dollars coming out of our pockets and they're in a position of influence over our children.

Gil Imber said...

I meant he hit one of the other two -- not prolonged (obviously that wasn't prolonged). If he got personal, he's going to get the hook immediately. I can say something to an umpire that will get me ejected in two words -- it doesn't mean it's a quick hook. Or that it's even profane.


("You're terrible" would be an ejection from any game at any level I umpire.)

Gil Imber said...

Then you need a thicker skin. Or get out of the profession.

Gil Imber said...

I guess so, but they're still human aren't they? At least they're showing emotion mostly because they have failed, or haven't tried hard enough, as opposed to the countless jack***es on tv who are watched by more people than were watching Molina. Yet we still seem to hold athletes to a higher standard than the people on the Real World.

Gil Imber said...

Mike, these are rules and have nothing to with how thick a persons skin is. This has been something that everyone in the game has known for 50+ years. Nobody is required to take verbal abuse while st work. You call a cop an f'ing pig and I guarantee you that you'll be in cuffs sitting in the back of a cruiser.

Gil Imber said...

It takes Molina 4.8 seconds to get to first base. If he can't get down there any quicker than that, he has no reason showing his can. But what is truly missing is check out the face of the kid in the front row with the mohawk. Mom is going to have to explain the meaning of some new words tonight. Either that or the kid is going to ask Mom to pass the %$**&%* peas.

Gil Imber said...

For the record, Molina DID NOT INTENTIONALLY SPIT on umpire Rob Drake. It was just from being angry and talking at a rapid rate, happens to me when I umpire as well. There was not intent there.

Gil Imber said...

I'd say Yadi kept pretty cool. Considering that minor league fagan was so quick to get his panties in a bunch. Ida knocked him the f@%$ out if it were me. I reckon that's just me though.

Gil Imber said...

Clown is the only word that's coming to my mind in response to this.

Gil Imber said...

You write stories without even watching games dumbass?!?! You stated "Replays indicate Pill caught the baseball prior to Molina's left foot contacting first base, the call was correct." and " Yadier Molina and Manager Mike Matheny for arguing an out call" That was never a argument the out, but the ejection was.. The argument was because Clint wanted to make a name for himself. Yadi threw his helmet down in frustration because of his own error. Then Clint threw him out of there! Every game I watch, everyone does it. But never get tossed for it. It was a bad call to eject! If you dont think so then you dont watch enough baseball! Before you ramble bullshit stuff, without watching the actual game, then dont fing report it! Because this is all but a bullshit article!

Gil Imber said...

As I told players: the best way to avoid getting ejected for throwing equipment is to avoid throwing equipment. To me, this warranted an ejection. As a former professional umpire, I avoided determining intent and just set the precedent -- if you launch equipment [i.e., slamming a helmet, launching a bat, etc.], you will be ejected from the game. Hard enough for me to umpire let alone determine intent.

Now, examining this technically: was this severe? I'd say so. It's deliberate. Two hands and it does bounce. The intent is questionable, but when the intent is questionable, the PLAYER put the umpire in that situation and should deal with it. Just my two cents.

Gil Imber said...

Ejections are standard if they argue a call or direct the disagreement with a umpire by saying something then slamming it.. Clint knew it was not directed towards him at anytime!

Gil Imber said...

only three ejections (still a lot for a player) but all three have featured massive meltdowns where he had to be restrained (Drake last year, and this one) or threw equipment and made a huge scene (first one was Paul Schreiber while he was catching). Lots of managers got ejected more often than Lou Piniella too, but I don't think anyone would argue with calling him a hothead because he almost always went nuts when it happened.

Gil Imber said...

No, you just don't get it - obviously you don't understand the code from either side (the umpire or the manager/player side). There's an established code in baseball and everyone knows what it is. Managers and players typically know what they can say and what they can't say -- when they get run it's because either (1) they can't control themselves and hit the right button, (2) they intentionally get themselves run, or (3) can't take a hint to leave when the umpire's had enough.


If someone at higher levels (and I only work amateur baseball) told me I was terrible and I didn't eject that person, they'd have me for lunch and I'd also lose any and all respect they had for me.


The magic word for someone who wants to get run is not F*** or anything like that. It's "you" -- and I'm fairly confident that Matheny knew exactly what he was doing and got himself run there to try to deflect attention away from Molina.

Gil Imber said...

Did nobody that say something like this or the person that wrote the article even watch the game or seen the whole play? Seriously

Gil Imber said...

That's an automatic eject at any level. Then lose your mind and act like a three year old.

Gil Imber said...

Obviously never called a game.

Gil Imber said...

So kids emulate the stars... That means a play is at the plate a 10 year old should plow over the catcher. A team hits a batter, the other team should throw at their star? There is a lot of things kid emulate from everyday life and what they see in ALL sports, its support group around them to let them know that its now how to play the game. At Wrigley last month, i seen a dad throw his son a ball in BP to throw back onto the field at players. I think the kid and his loser dad should have been tossed when it happened. You are what your support group informs you whats right and wrong. But by your idea.. I guess in Miami, guess they learn to only show up for playoff games in all sports. In basketball, play dirty. Baseball screw over the public of public money, and dont care about anyone but yourself. Awesome!

Gil Imber said...

Wrong.

Gil Imber said...

http://mediadownloads.mlb.com/mlbam/2013/06/02/images/mlbf_27679279_th_13.jpg

Here is the best picture I seen on it yet from MLB. Instead of learning negative how to act. These kids seem to be learning how not to act.

Gil Imber said...

They way he wrote the article has to do with how we score points in the UEFL. He writes them pretty fast to. If he gets more information later on he will edit the article if he thinks its wrong. That is something I'm sure Gil will tell you himself.

Gil Imber said...

Even the cardinal fans are embarrassed by Molina's actions. LOL JK I don't know what they are thinking.

Gil Imber said...

Players show their ass....umpires do their job...and the jack legs come out of the woodwork to defend the childish behavior of a pro athlete...my boys take an ass whippin' when they throw a temper tantrum but the plumbers on this website let the inmates run the asylum..get a clue!!!!

Gil Imber said...

For the most part everyone on this site is against Molina.

Gil Imber said...

This umpire was a bit dismissive too. He ejects Molina and the walks away. He can't even take an argument. If you are going to eject someone, take the argument like a man. Don't walk away.

Gil Imber said...

I would disagree...there are more people on here splitting hairs about who Molina was mad at. Guy gets whacked out on a whacker and the umpire is suppose to err on the side of he was mad at himself? I realize this is "fan" page but most of the people who pop off on here with crap like he's making a name for himself would piss their pants in that situation.

Gil Imber said...

I'll have to agree with you on that.

Gil Imber said...

So do you assault everyone that disagrees with you, or just umpires?

Gil Imber said...

Where do you work? I'm going to go there and scream at you and see how long you can ignore it.

Gil Imber said...

You do realize that people can have different opinions on things, right?

Gil Imber said...

Key words being "if the umpire deems". The umpire deemed it, therefore the ejection was correct according to the standard.

Gil Imber said...

I only do high school level ball, and I know high school level is not pro level, but the policy has always been when you eject someone you walk away and let your partner come in and get them off the field. You don't ever continue the argument past the ejection.

Gil Imber said...

same here. I only ump for high school ball and I agree on what you said

Gil Imber said...

Before YOU ramble bullshit stuff, without knowing what you're talking about, maybe spend a little time reading the site. The reason for ejection is the safe call by UEFL rule.

Gil Imber said...

You should ask your friend in MLB to explain to you how the umpires are taught to handle these sorts of situations.

Gil Imber said...

To take a line from your own book: "You do realize that people can have different opinions on things, right?" Obviously there is a disagreement on the call. We have everything from idiots to people posing as professional umpires on here who have now offered their opinions. Thanks for offering your "opinion", then trying to act as if yours is superior. Get a life.

Gil Imber said...

Two things are obvious from going over the comments so far...(1) there are several people commenting that must have stumbled onto this article via Google and have never before seen the UEFL and the way it works, and (2) there are several people that don't understand there are policies in place that umpires must follow that are not written in the OBR.

I don't care how 'emotional' you are in the heat of the moment or whether you are 'mad at yourself' or 'mad at the umpire', slamming equipment at any point is dangerous and unprofessional (remember, this is 'professional' baseball, not little league), and should not be tolerated. It is not in the umpires discretion to determine 'intent', it's the umpires job to maintain professionalism on the field.

Gil Imber said...

That wasn't an opinion. This is much like a check swing call. You can agree with it or you can disagree with it, but the rule says that it is solely the umpire's judgment, so BY RULE an umpire can't get a check swing call wrong. That doesn't mean you can't disagree with it, and it doesn't mean you can't think it's the wrong call, it just means that according to the rulebook the umpire is always right, and what is written in the rulebook is not a matter of opinion.


Similarly, this standard leaves the determination of intent solely to the umpire, so BY THE STANDARD the umpire can't be wrong to eject as the only criteria is the umpire's opinion. That doesn't mean you can't disagree with it, and it doesn't mean you can't think the ejection shouldn't have happened, it just means that according to the book the umpire is always right, and what is written in the standard is not a matter of opinion.

Gil Imber said...

You have a friend in MLB and today is your first time on this site? Your friend must not have anything to do with umpires in the MLB.

Gil Imber said...

Thank you for the clarity.

Gil Imber said...

Clint Fagan did an awesome job handling this situation in my opinion. You don't spike or throw equipment on a close call, because I'm going to air on the side of you are trying to show me up by throwing your equipment immediately after I made the call. How about, don't spike your helmet? There's a difference between taking your helmet off and tossing it, and taking it off and spiking it on the ground to where it bounces 10 feet away from you. I really appreciate the way Fagan handled the situation by remaining calm cool and collected while Yadi is going bat$h!+ crazy behind him. I don't appreciate the way Matheny comes out immediately to argue with Fagan instead of helping restrain Yadi before arguing the ejection. BTW I do umpire professional baseball and I am from St. Louis and grew up a cardinals fan, but Fagan did a stand up job here, I think we'll be seeing him as a full tiem big league umpire in the next 2-3 years.

Gil Imber said...

That is simply an absolutely awful display by Molina following the ejection. If you must be physically restrained from assaulting another person then you have some serious issues.

Gil Imber said...

Since you umpire professional baseball I'd like to hear your opinion on Mike Estabrook?

Gil Imber said...

If this has already been asked, I apologize in advance.......but with the events that went down, I think IMHO that Yadier does not respect the younger umps. See: Rob Drake spitting incident against Milwaukee 2011. I'm sure the moderator has the link to this reference.

Gil Imber said...

Its simple: DON'T THROW YOUR EQUIPMENT! No matter if you are mad at yourself or not. Throwing of any equipment is an automatic ejection. Use your head

Gil Imber said...

It's up there. And you can easily find where Rob Drake claimed a manager spit on him later in that week. Neither of them were obvious.

Gil Imber said...

Still waiting to know what the umpire said to him.

Gil Imber said...

"I didn't spit on [Drake's] face." ... Maybe not intentionally, but you did.
"I tried to hold my helmet." ... Uh?

Great work, Yadi.

Gil Imber said...

Warranted ejection, but it looks bad. Immediately following the helmet slam, Molina turned right, not left. He was headed back to the dugout when he got whacked... never good.

Gil Imber said...

As implied above, this is a safe/out ejection. The membership last season voted down a proposal to categorize all Equipment Throwing ejections under the Unsportsmanlike-NEC/Irrecusable label and exempt such ejections from Quality of Correctness consideration under Rule 6-2-b-5. Therefore, pursuant to Rule 4-2-b, we're bound to present Quality of Correctness in relation to an objective standard: in this case, safe/out.

Gil Imber said...

Hey Jp, thanks for agreeing with me.

Gil Imber said...

Full Disclosure:

I kinda miss 6 years ago when nobody knew about cascreamindude. I00+ comments arguing about tobacco, correct actions because of kids, etc...it's aggravating. I've followed this site for many years but never been involved as a player. If you don't know what this site is about...butt out. We know our rules and lifelines and have the offseason rules summit every year to modify rules to make this 'friendly' competition even more fun.

That is all.

Gil Imber said...

My faith in you people has been restored. It's good to see the umpiring community come together to stand up for Fagan

Gil Imber said...

Yeah lets talk about incorrect reporting in baseball for a second shall we? Let's talk about the announcers who cant get a rule right to save their lives, who literally havent even read the rules (see: Brian Knight ejection of Bob Melvin a couple of days ago.) On a daily basis I see irresponsible, and borderline vicious reporting by broadcasters of baseball games and no one knows the difference, so they all go home thinking MLB umpires suck. The UEFL is hardly a culprit of incorrect reporting here. It is a well-known fact that throwing your equipment after a close call is an ejectable offense. Johnny Phralta got thrown out for the same thing two days ago, and Ryan Braun earlier in the season. Clint Fagan has been up and down in the big leagues for 3 seasons now. Just because your oh-so-credible broadcasters haven't heard of him doesnt mean hes new. If you knew anything about the MLB umpire hiring proces or how these guys are evaluated you would know that the last thing a young umpire wants to do is go out and "make a name for himself"

Gil Imber said...

Kevin Frandsen, not Pheralta

Gil Imber said...

That's the best comment .

Gil Imber said...

Jeff...thanks for giving me hope there is one intelligent guy posting on here....thank you...well stated above.

Gil Imber said...

Actually to most clueless fans who make excuses for players all the time it would look like he's mad at himself.

Gil Imber said...

Yyyaaawwwwwnnnnn

Gil Imber said...

Brad Thede, we appreciate your subtle arrogance. Where would all of the "clueless fans" be without your superior intellect. The last time I checked, the sport exists because of the fans.

Gil Imber said...

Not really. They think the umpire should have known that Molina was only mad at himself and are mocking him because he is an insurance salesman in the off season.

Gil Imber said...

While agreeing players should not throw equipment, the heat of the game is what it is and I have seen this happen more than once without the player being tossed. Had Yadi said something to the Umpire it would have been a no brainer, but there certainly needs to be consistency in how determinations are made to eject a player. Similar events happen alot without ejections and without a specific rule (right or wrong), then the decision to eject is a judgement call.

Gil Imber said...

The issue is flat out, such does not always result in a ejection; it is a judgment call. No words were spoken until after the ejection. Looking at the replay, it looked to me like it was really not all that close of play. He was clearly out by a step. That said I do not disagree with the need of professional atheletes needing to control their temper or emotions, but where one umpire will toss a player, another may not and there is where the problem lies.

Gil Imber said...

Drug testing..need I say more?

Gil Imber said...

Well, I'm not a former professional umpire or anything, but this to me seems to be a no-brainer. I don't understand some of this type of behavior, I really don't.

Gil Imber said...

Well, I am not a former professional umpire or anything, but I would not tolerate this puerile behavior at any level. Isn't this the second time Molina has gone ballistic?

Gil Imber said...

Terrible writing of this story. Molina didn't throw his helmet because he thought he was safe, he threw it down because he was mad at himself for not hustling out of the batters box because he thought the ball was going to get through the infield. Instead the shortstop made a great play and threw him out. Molina knew he was out. The ROOKIE umpire made a quick judgment call without thinking and threw Molina out of the game because he thought it was "obvious discontent over the call." The ump was wrong. That wasn't the case at all. The ump lost track of the situation. Molina did NOTHING towards the umpire. If players are going to get ejected for throwing helmets and equipment then then there are going to be 20 to 30 a day.

Gil Imber said...

Wait a minute. People say umpires are confrontational and should just "walk away" after an ejection. Then they do just that, like in this situation, and you tell them they need to "take it like a man". Make up your freaking minds.

Gil Imber said...

Molina left it in Fagan's hands. Don't spike your helmet and he won't have to try and figure out why you're spiking your helmet. Maybe these guys will figure it out one day.

Gil Imber said...

Sounds as if "Austin" needs to graduate high school before he pops off again.

Gil Imber said...

Great call, great poise, great assistance by the rest of the crew. Wonderful example of how to handle situations.

Gil Imber said...

Turd, You're everything that's wrong with umpires. The good news is that because of your inability to understand your own lack of significance and importance to the game, much of your need will be replaced by technology. NOBODY CARES what you think and nobody paid to see you. If this ROOKIE umpire had even a tiny feel for the game, he would have understood the situation and that Molina was mad at himself. If umpires threw players out for equipment abuse, there would be 5+ ejections every night. Get over yourself. It was a horrible call.

Gil Imber said...

The fact you get on a forum to insult people displays your character. Most of us on here desire to share our opinions and perhaps, learn some insight from others' opinions. If your requesting to know my education background, I have a MS and an MBA. I suggest you do some internal reflection of your childish behavior and only contribute to the forum if you have something subjective to add.

Gil Imber said...

Matheny's first job after his player is ejected is to get him off the field. If he choose to fore-go that responsibility and go straight to the umpire, then he should be immediately ejected.

Gil Imber said...

There's not an umpire in professional baseball who wouldn't throw him out of the game.

Gil Imber said...

MLB decision is a 1 game suspension. Molina has vowed to appeal.

Gil Imber said...

MLB decision is officially a 1 game suspension. Molina has vowed to appeal.

Gil Imber said...

A professional umpire, on a site devoted to a fake sport based on real umpiring, paying homage to another umpire for a pretty weak (but not technically wrong) ejection. The fake sport's rules automatically characterize the rule as a safe/out ejection, even for the Manager who was without a doubt arguing the ejection and not the call. Maybe you just "air [sic] on the side" of self-importance?

Gil Imber said...

Well said, Jeff!

Gil Imber said...

Sorry if I was unclear. I wasn't referring to the meltdown, because if that doesn't get you canned, I don't know what will. I was referring to the initial helmet slam, the equivalent of slamming a pen down on a desk.

Gil Imber said...

"Throwing of any equipment is an automatic ejection."
It is? There have been some umpires who evidently didn't get that memo.

Gil Imber said...

Calmly walking away after an ejection isn't being dismissive. It is a basic de-escalation technique. Walking away, by itself, won't completely end the argument. However, it is far less likely to inflame the situation than standing there, bowing up and going toe-to-toe with a highly agitated young man who hammer curls more than the umpire weighs.

Walking away is also the correct move from a PR standpoint. When I look at this video, it's clear who the a-hole is. If a player or manager pursues an umpire from behind to jump in his face, it is the manager or player who looks bad. OTOH, when an umpire stands there with his jowels flopping, the a-hole inquiry becomes much less clear.

Mr. Fagan's post-ejection conduct was a credit both to himself and the umpiring profession.

Gil Imber said...

He should consider himself lucky to only get one game.

Gil Imber said...

Well, I am not a former professional umpire or anything, but this is the second time I have seen Molina do this (at least I think it is the second time, I could be wrong). I can understand being heated over a call you know was wrong, but I applaud the umpire for getting this very close call correct!

Gil Imber said...

I agree. That is insane behavior. I am not a former professional umpire or anything, but this is the
second time I have seen Molina do this (at least I think it is the
second time, I could be wrong). I can understand being heated over a
call you know was wrong, but I applaud the umpire for getting this very
close call correct!

Gil Imber said...

RAT

Gil Imber said...

Well, I am not a former professional umpire or anything, but this is a no-brainer and is the
second time I have seen Molina do this (at least I think it is the
second time, I could be wrong). I can understand being heated over a
call you know was wrong, but I applaud the umpire for getting this very
close call correct! I don't understand the lack of sportsmanship. I see it occasionally in the lower levels (youth) as well. In fact, doing a game last night I had to rebuke a team for some rather ... indecorous behavior! I was more upset at the coach for allowing it...

Gil Imber said...

Terrible writing of this comment. DMcCoy didn't know the purpose of the site.

Gil Imber said...

DMcCoy, I suggest you look into Sam Holbrook's 2012 ejection of Zack Greinke as an example. The only situation in which this doesn't result in an ejection is if the umpire doesn't see him do it.

Gil Imber said...

I notice that Fagan was replaced on the crew for their next game by Chris Conroy. Hmmm. Coincidence?

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